Microsoft has joined the ranks of prominent tech companies pledging to remove more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere than they emit. Elizabeth Willmott, Microsoft's Carbon Program Manager, comes on the show to tell us more.
Full Transcript
Ross Kenyon: Hello and welcome to Carbon Removal Newsroom. I’m Ross Kenyon. I’m the lead strategist with the Nori Carbon Removal Marketplace. Today I have with me Alexsandra Guerra here from Nori. She’s going to be conducting this interview for me, so I’m just going to lay back and basically do nothing. So thanks for making my job easy today, Alexsandra.
Alexsandra Guerra: Oh, you’re most welcome, Ross.
Ross Kenyon: Thank you. We saw that there was a very big announcement from Microsoft. I’m sure if you’re a listener to the show, you knew it was only a matter of time before an episode came out about it. So I’ll turn it over to Alexsandra to take you from here.
Alexsandra Guerra: Thanks, Ross. I’m here with Elizabeth Willmott, the Carbon Program Manager at Microsoft. Hi, Liz.
Elizabeth Willmott: Hey, thanks for having me.
Alexsandra Guerra: So everybody in the Twitterverse kind of went crazy recently with this announcement that Microsoft has a new carbon goal. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what that is?
Elizabeth Willmott: Absolutely. And I’ll just say for starters, that we are looking to align our operations with climate science. And that is the North Star that we use. We look to the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. We need to reach net zero emissions globally, meaning that humanity must remove as much carbon as it emits each year. And this will actually take aggressive approaches from companies who can do more. And so for us, the commitment to be carbon negative, which is what we announced on Thursday, is an example of corporate action to not only reduce the emissions that we are creating, but also to remove that and more.
Alexsandra Guerra: And then I think too, isn’t there a really cool ambitious goal that you have for 2050?
Elizabeth Willmott: Yes, thank you. So we have committed to be not only net zero by 2030, but actually carbon negative by 2030. And so that covers our scope one, two, and three emissions, and then includes a commitment to remove all of our historical emissions since 1975.
Alexsandra Guerra: Which was when you guys were founded, right?
Elizabeth Willmott: Correct, yeah.
Alexsandra Guerra: I think that’s such a cool way of, you know, we were seeing a lot of announcements like, okay, we’re going to move 50 times our emissions and everybody’s being more creative. But I think that is really interesting because we talk about that at Nori though, Ross, right? Like when we first founded Nori, we were talking about, yeah, people can use carbon removal to get to net zero carbon, but then they can pay down their carbon debt. And Microsoft is the first company to publicly state that they will pay down all of their carbon debt.
Ross Kenyon: Which is how much exactly, Liz?
Elizabeth Willmott: For us, we took, like Alexsandra said, we took an approach of really thinking about what our fair share of carbon removal would be or what our fair share of carbon reduction would be. And we said, yeah, the developing countries of the world have often in international climate negotiations have often said... That developed countries and the companies that reside in them have an unpaid climate debt. And so we took that framework and we’re really excited to run with it and excited with the response that it’s gotten. We’ve estimated that to be roughly 24 million for our scope one and two emissions.
And that is based on estimations from our revenue intensity of carbon over the years and our employee carbon intensity over the years.
Alexsandra Guerra: Okay. And so, I mean, that’s what you said, 24 million tonnes. That’s going to be a pretty tough challenge. What kind of companies are you interested in looking at for carbon removal? How do you plan to meet these goals?
Elizabeth Willmott: It’s a good question. And right now, the market may not be ready to supply this amount of carbon removal that we’ve set our sights on. And so we’re going to be working with a number of different suppliers over the years. To help to stimulate that market. We’ve also committed to create a $1 billion investment fund that will help to invest in companies that either decarbonize or remove So those are the criteria we use. And those could be applied across both natural climate solutions and engineered solutions as well.
Alexsandra Guerra: And so what are you seeing right now in the landscape? I mean, you said that the supply is less than what you have in demand to meet these goals. That makes sense. That can grow. You’re looking for scalability. But what are the next steps look like for Microsoft? Where are you now? Have you a good sense of where to start and where you’re going to go in the next year or two?
Elizabeth Willmott: Yeah, we’re working with a number of different NGOs and academic institutions to really lay the groundwork for the next decade. We want to partner with other companies to do this. It’s not about us. It’s about achieving this collectively for the planet. And expect to hear more from us in the next six months about exactly what that roadmap will look like.
Alexsandra Guerra: Hmm. Okay. Are there any technologies in particular that have caught your eye? You mentioned some categories earlier, but is there a specific one that’s interesting to you?
Elizabeth Willmott: Well, for us, it really boils down to whether they meet the criteria that we need. We need to invest in carbon removal solutions that are immediate and immediately available. And those for us include natural climate solutions such as Soil carbon sequestration, afforestation, reforestation, coastal sequestration in mangroves, blue carbon. We’re also looking in the medium and long term at engineered solutions such as direct air capture, carbon capture and storage, and carbon utilization. And really, again, the criteria are pretty, at the basic level, the criteria are pretty clear for us. They have to meet environmental verification standards, and they have to meet our price point.
Alexsandra Guerra: Okay, so how are you personally feeling? You’re Carbon Program Manager, you’ve been working, and so for those who are not familiar, maybe some background, Microsoft has been carbon neutral since 2012, is that correct?
Elizabeth Willmott: Correct, that’s right.
Alexsandra Guerra: Microsoft also has its own internal price on Carbon, and you’ve been leading this effort to meet these commitments since then. So now that you have this huge, ambitious, exciting announcement, what are you feeling? What has it been like for you?
Elizabeth Willmott: Thanks for asking. I feel simultaneously thrilled and also very sobered. I think that it’s absolutely thrilling that our executives took this on board and led with their own vision for this package. That package is, in fact, a real example of executive vision that was really a commitment to be bold on the part of our CEO, our president, and our CFO. And so that’s an amazing place to be. At the same time, I also feel incredibly sobered at the work we have to do and a desire to want to do it right.
You know, again, we’re going to be relying on deep partnerships with the NGO community, with the climate science community, and with other companies to make sure we approach this in a holistic way that achieves the benefits and shares best practices with other companies who can join. So it’s a lot of work, but we’re really, really excited about it.
Alexsandra Guerra: So is it fair to say that this decision was driven from the top, from leadership? Because we’re trying to understand, you know, a lot of these announcements are coming from tech companies. And it seems like once leadership is behind an idea like this, things get going. Otherwise, it’s really difficult to do. And I know you’ve been talking to people at other companies. Do you think that’s a fair assessment?
Elizabeth Willmott: Absolutely. That’s a number one. That’s the number one ingredient is to have executive leadership. And I think what I really got excited about in talking to our executives was their real commitment that those of us who can afford to move faster and go further should do so. So while the world will need to reach net zero, some companies will need to go carbon negative. And so that spirit and that sense of leadership is truly exciting to me. I think that I haven’t personally seen it before in my decade plus of working in climate change.
Alexsandra Guerra: Well, it’s definitely exciting because it is a very, let’s say, stressful time right now for the planet as a whole, faced with this climate crisis. So thank you for all the work that you’ve done as part of this effort and for, you know, good luck with everything that’s coming up. Because it’s such a large task, I have one more question. What are some of the challenges that you foresee down the road for Microsoft in meeting these goals?
Elizabeth Willmott: Frankly, I think it’s the same challenge that we all face is can we move fast enough? Because the current science tells us that we need to reduce and remove a certain amount by 2030 and then by 2040 and by 2050. But as we’ve seen with... With the wildfires in Australia and the devastation there, both to biodiversity and to human life, change is not linear. And so for us, we’re just trying to run as hard as we can, run smart, but also run hard. And so I think that we can’t, you know, we really can’t move quickly enough.
And we’re trying, you know, we are. And I think that the exciting thing to me is that we get to show up every day and do our part and contribute to solutions. And that to me is incredibly inspiring. I think when the largest companies in the world and then large, medium and small size companies all get together, that is once we start to really spread across the global economy, that’s when I think real change can happen in a really positive way to help avoid the most catastrophic impacts of climate change.
Alexsandra Guerra: Absolutely. So you mentioned, you know, all types of scales of businesses, but it’s interesting because we’ve just seen a lot of tech companies in the last six months or so making announcements like this. There was Stripe, Shopify, Amazon, Microsoft now. Why do you think, and I know this could be your opinion, but why do you think this trend is within tech companies? Why are they so interested in making commitments like this?
Elizabeth Willmott: Well, I think there’s a few reasons. I think, as I said before, those of us who can afford to move faster and go further should do so. We have the resources to do so. But I think the real spirit of it comes down to two things. One is that tech companies are founded. And so when we look at data and science, we see the reality that the world is facing today. The other aspect of it, I think, is that our employees really care deeply. And not only our employees, but our customers and our investors care deeply, deeply about this topic.
And so we’re truly hoping to be responsive to that call to action that we’ve been hearing increasingly from them.
Ross Kenyon: And then you said up to scope three, and does that involve... How do the scopes work for our listeners who might not know? What exactly does that cover?
Elizabeth Willmott: Sure. Sure. Right. So scope one is really focused on direct emissions that a business’s activities create, like exhaust from the fleets, our car fleets, the trucks that transport transport. We transport our people across campus, the generators that we run. Scope 2 emissions are indirect emissions that come from the production of the electricity or heat that we use. They’re the traditional energy sources that light up our buildings. Scope 3 emissions are materials. I think anyone who’s worked in scope three will immediately attest to that. Those are the indirect emissions that come from all the other activities in which we’re engaged, including producing the goods and services that we buy, manufacturing our products.
So when an Xbox or a Surface plugs into a wall at a customer’s home or business, that electricity is part of our scope three, part of Microsoft’s scope three. So it’s essentially the full life cycle of its products upstream and downstream. And so that is a big, big chunk of emissions that are quite hard to not only calculate, but also reduce. And so that to us is a really exciting frontier that we’re pursuing. And specifically on that count, the expansion of our carbon fee to scope three is going to be hopefully a really helpful incentive that we can use to help drive those reductions.
Alexsandra Guerra: Ross, thank you for clarifying that. I think sometimes we get so stuck in our own little worlds of like scope and I totally forgot that was an important definition. Thanks for walking us through that, Liz.
Elizabeth Willmott: You bet.
Ross Kenyon: I’m happy to know that if I’m at home playing Rocket League on my Xbox, I’m taken care of. So thank you, Liz.
Elizabeth Willmott: And that’s the funny thing with this scope one and two is that we don’t want to, by us taking care of a customer’s electricity emissions, we don’t want to create a negative incentive for them to take action or for you to take action. But we are aware that our investments can help hopefully ease the way.
Ross Kenyon: Cool. Well, thank you for hosting, Alexsandra.
Alexsandra Guerra: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Ross Kenyon: If you like the show, please rate and review us on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, or on Stitcher. And thank you so much for listening.
